Gel Cells?

At a local surplus store they have a bunch of 6V-4AH sealed batteries for $8.00 a pop. I wonder if they would work in place of the one in the Grande.

They are not as long as the stock battery, and I'll have to verify the height and width.

These are probably communications batteries.

Jim

Re: Gel Cells?

Look at the date codes and make sure that they are not way old. They would have been communication batteries or some kinda UPS battery. The amount of power that a moped puts out probably wouldn't hurt the batteries and they would keep the lights shining when you were at a stop light. The problem would be in the voltage of the charge. The gel cell batteries aren't designed to take as high a voltage as the wet cell batteries. If you have the numbers off of the old battery, you might be able to get one cheap thru JC Whitney. They sell the 6 volt battery for my Fa50 for something like $5.00 plus a little to ship but the small motorcycle batteries don't cost much to ship anyway.

Re: Gel Cells?

Does that acronym `UPS' stand for `uninterrupted power supply'?Like in emergency lighting gel cells?

Re: Gel Cells?

Jim,

I've wondered the same thing. What I was interested in was sealed lead acid batteries. Batteries Plus makes a couple of types that will fit in a Vespa moped, but I haven't been able to get an answer as to whether it is a bad idea. I sure like the sound of no acid spills on my tailpipe.

Chris

Re: Gel Cells?

Ron Brown /

Don,

Actually, usually for a computer. No one cares much if emergency lamps flicker, but it is nasty for a computer. At the same time, I am sure they use these cells in some emergency lamps. Some vcrs and even some cordless phones use gel cells.

Ron

Re: Gel Cells?

Thanks,Ron! I know we have UPS systems here,but they have pretty powerful battery backups.We can't stand a power outage for too long either.But it's not dangerous if we lose backup power.Just flashlight time!It's odd.I was just talking to an Instrument repairman here yesterday and he was describing how to install a rectifier in line from the magneto to a `gel cell' on a moped like mine that has no battery.(8>])

Re: Thanks Jamie

Jamie:

I have a JC whitney battery in there right now, but sooner or later it will go and I was wondering about the gel cell as a replacement.

The info on he charging rate was something new to me.

Jim

Re: Gel Cells?

Ron Brown /

Don,

We have beaten this subject to death in the past in several threads, you may want to search for "charging, batteries, rectifier etc. and see what pops up.

Ron

Re: Gel Cells?

Yeah,Ron,I remember.That was a good beating alright!But I think it would be nice to have a little battery back-up when I come to a stop sign at night.I'm not ready to get into that mod. yet though.Gotta get this 60cc kit installedand tuned when it arrives.I'm pretty excited about it,Ron.

Re: Gel Cells?

Ron Brown /

Don,

Good luck on the kit. I am fairly sure that the battery charging/dc lamp circuit could be built, but I am not sure if it is worth the trouble. I think that some of the products sold for cyclists and motorcyclists could be used with a rechargeable (at home) battery and do as much or more for visibility.

Ron

Re: Thanks Jamie

The voltage thing can be a problem depending on the amperage going into the battery and the size of the battery. ie car batteries charge at about 14 to 14.5 volts and varying amperages but if you were to charge it at 18 volts and only 20 watts of power, there would be no problem at all because of the size. It wouldn't hurt the battery at all but if you charged the same battery at 18 volts and say 25 amps, it would burn the battery up.

When you are checking on gell cells, you have to be a little careful. They can start to solidify near the plates. It will put out full voltage but the amphour rating can be less than a third of new. They make or at least made gell cells for atv's. At the price you are talking about, it probably wouldn't hurt anything. Just check near the posts to see if it starts to swell or ooze anything. Gell cells are not quite as tollerant to the same types of charging that a regular wet battery is. The normal gassing during a charge has nowhere to vent and has to be reobsorbed by the liquid acid. If your current battery seems to spatter a little out the drain tube then a gell cell may not be good for you. On the other hand, if the rating is a little higher than what is standard, then you have the extra area so to speak to obsorbe the varying power.

On the UPS thing, it is uninterupted power supply and they are in all kinds of things from cash registers to phones to the emergency lights in buildings (the ones that look like there are headlights at the top. I wasn't really trying to scare you away. The power that an older moped gives is not that much. You might could go with a gell cell just fine. If you are wanting a back up though, the JC Whitney battery would be a better set on the shelf type of a thing. Whenever you need it, just put the acid in and charge it a little. Next week, next month, next year. With a gell cell or any activated battery, just sitting is bad for it. If you want to learn more than you really need about batteries, check out some of the web sights for alternative energy or solar power. They are about 30% batteries. They have a new type of battery out that uses a glass webbing that works like an electrolite starved battery except that the glass webbing sits against the cells of the battery for the electrolite contact. Anyway, try the battery out if you want, just keep an eye on it. Like I said earlier, it cannot vent. Thats what makes them good and that is also one of their weeknesses. If you always drive with your lights on, you probbably wont have a problem.

Jamie

Re: Gel Cells?

Thanks,Ron! Yeah,I hope the kit makes my mopeding even more enjoyable.I have the excuse in buying it because even though the present 50cc is running great,it IS old and a little low on compression.I'm trying to lose some weight with the Atkins diet,but I cheat so much I'm just holding my own,really.A 30 lb. weight loss would help me and the `peds a lot.Ha!Wow! If I get down to 200 lbs. AND have a 60cc kit,I might have to disconnect the throttle on that thing and idle it around Jackson.I think you may be right on the battery mod.........there are some good rechargeable batteries out there.But I'm a `gadget man'(on a lower order than Wayne,but who isn't)so I might have to burn a couple of coils before I learn one way or another though.

Re: Thanks Jamie

Interesting stuff,Jamie! Thanks!

Re: Gel Cells?

Ron Brown /

Don,

If you are determined enough, Brian (mini engine) and I beat to death a circuit for a Batavus which I think was on his web site. I don't know if he ever tried it but you might want to visit his site and/or email him as this was the closest I have seen to a workable circuit.

Ron

Re: Gel Cells?

Yeah,you jogged my memory on that,Ron! THANKS,I will check it out once I get this new 60cc kit dialed in.(8>])

Re: Thanks Jamie

Jamie,

Is sealed lead acid the same as "gel cel?"

Chris

Re: Thanks Jamie

yes and no, Most people are talking about a gel cell when they say sealed lead acid. The whole purpose if a gel cell is to be able to use it in any direction. ie sideways without any ill effects. Your maintenance free batteries like the ones for your car are not gell cells. They are wet batteries that use some techniques to get the gasses reobsorbed without having to vent the gasses.

Batteries are basic in principle but can get kinda complicated when you start to get technical with them. A regular sealed battery will eventually vent some and will go bad because the level of the electrolytic acid gets low.

Charging is also another consideration. With a car battery, it is designed to put out a bunch of power at one time and then pretty much just sit there while the alternator does the work. A UPS battery is designed to be discharged to a greater exent and then recharged. It is not designed to put out a whole bunch of power at one time though. This starts to get into plate thickness and design and function. You've probably noticed that a marine battery is a little heavier than the same size automotive battery. That is because it has thicker plates and thus more lead in the plates. The thinner size of the auto battery allows the energy to flow out of it a little faster.

To just answer your question though, no they are not the same. A sealed battery cannot be turned on its side while a gel cell can. The sealed battery does have some of the same disadvantaegs though. A sealed battery is more likely to pop if it is over charged. This kinda goes back to the 18 volt thing. Too much gassing inside of the battery and it cannot reobsorbe the gasses like it is designed to.

One of the reasons you need to keep the water level of your car battery where it is supposed to be is to reduce the amount of the gasses inside the battery. NEVER smoke around a charging battery. The gasses that come out of it can explode if ignited. When I was younger, I worked at SEARS in the automotive department. We had a room that was for all of the batteries. Charging and just storage, waiting to be installed or sold. The charging batteries were the one s that you had to be careful around. You could smell the gasses coming out of them (as many as 20 to 40 batteries charging at the same time). While I worked there, a fellow in Florida lit a cigarette in the battery room in the shop that he worked at and had to go to the hospital. They said it blew him right out of the battery room kinda like in the movies. (our insurance company made them stop letting us smoke in the shop after that. With all of the gas and cleaners and stuff, somebody got hurt bad smoking around a battery) aint that a kick in the head.

« Go to Topic — end of thread

Want to post in this forum? We'd love to have you join the discussion, but first:

Login or Create Account