Honda electric moped

Steamboat Aka J. R. Stevens /

Re: Honda electric moped

very cool.

Re: Honda electric moped

I want one..

I went about building an electric from scratch and had some fun with it but serious motors are kinda expensive and i wanted it to be fast.. a 1-horse motor could get it up to around 40 MPH easily but that motor's gonna be about $500 or more.

Calif. State laws say an electric (assisted) scooter/bicycle is classified as a 'moped' or 'motorized bicycle'.. i forget which.. whether it has pedals or not.

However there is a top speed limit of 20 MPH and 750 watts or something like that..

So although you get the moped-classification, poking along at 20 MPH is not worth the effort, imo.

Re: Honda electric moped

Iiiiiiiii Died /

i have 1hp electric motors that are 120v and another 2 that are 1/ 2horse that are also 120v gear motors

Re: Honda electric moped

Jason Luther /

i have plans in my head (somewhere), that use a trolling motor motor. never got to it though. joe, how about some info/pics of yours?-jason

Re: Honda electric moped

It was dumped a year ago only because i got tired of the project. It ran fine. The following is from memory.

Mine was built on a 3-speed bicycle frame. The rear wheel 3-speed hub was preserved but i laced that hub to smaller 14 (?) inch rims. So, i had 3 speeds and small tires.

The front wheel was actually a rear wheel.. a pedal-activated "coaster" brake from a small kid's bike. I used a 10-speed brake handle and cable to activate that front brake. The rear tire had a normal 10-speed Shimano brake setup.

I cut the frame's triangle to shorten it while keeping the pedals and front sprocket at normal height, even with the smaller wheels. It looked kinda cool with high rise handle bars..

The 3" diameter, 6 inch long motor came from a cheap 12-24 volt electric scooter that used two 12volt gel cells. (Recharging transformer and circuit was included) That scooter had only low (12volt) and high (24volt) speeds. I wired it for 24 volts and built a 65 amp "pulse width modulator" (PWM) so i had infinite speed control.

I attached a small normal $8 freewheel sprocket _on the left side_ of the rear wheel and reversed the front sprocket/pedals so i could pedal the bike normally (the main chain/sprocket was now on the left side).

On the rear wheel's right side was a large 30 tooth sprocket. The 4,500 RPM (?) motor was mounted above the rear tire, geared down with a synchronous belt to a ball bearing counter shaft .. and the counter shaft's sprocket/chain went down to the rear wheel sprocket.

Gearing down from the high RPM electric motor was the reason for a lot of this design.. small tires and countershaft, etc.

The 3-speed hub was the best idea .. but the under powered motor was still only able to get me to about 20 mph in 2nd... 3rd gear was a bit too high to be useful.

12 degree incline?

Am I nuts? Thinking of this the wrong way?

this thing is only able to go up a 12 degree hill?

it seems like portland has lots of hills of 30 deg. or more. Maybe I'm just not that good at topology.

is a 12 degree incline steep? It doesn't seem it... are they gonna market this thing in san francisco or what?

yuck, yuck yuck.

I've seen cool electric. this icky looking P.O.S. from a big name is a token gesture, in my opinion, and it shows. In the long run I sometimes wonder if it might even be worse to ride an E-bike than a 4-stroke moped.

no comparison on a 2 stroke but those 4's are pretty darn efficient.

Honda electric moped

I'm impressed with the concept and the R&D, but that is just so dorky looking!

Re: Honda electric moped

Josha Anderson /

not as dorky as a segway. I was in the city a while ago and saw a bunch of yuppies on a "segway tour" of the river front, starting in Minneapolis's once happening St. Anthony Maine. I checked at the segway store, and the tours were like $90 for an hour! never have I wanted to tip over a crowd of yuppies so bad! all you'd need is a couple of mopeds and a long 2 by 4, you could knock them all over.

Re: Honda electric moped

hay dude, i was one of those dorks!

it was free through my girlfriend's work, and yea i felt like i was some robot on display-I am half human half machine, look at me(robot voice)- but they are very fun to cruze around on.

mopeds more fun

Re: Honda electric moped

On an electric bicycle, I never got used to cruising up and down the street at around 20 mph in complete silence.. and coming to a stop and then taking off without pedaling .. kinda spooky.

And if you think a lot of people gawk at you on a normal moped, try riding an electric down a park's bike paths with a bunch of regular bike riders. First they look at you like you're infected with a disease but then it changes to something kinda like jealousy.

Honda electric moped

Steamboat Aka J. R. Stevens /

Re: Honda electric moped

Jason Luther /

thats a good idea, the front coaster brake. i think a trolling motor motor would be great, they are something like 2 or 3 hp if i remember correctly. how much torque does a standard moped motor put out, anyone know? i bet you could hold the rear wheel and stall the engine at full throttle.

Re: Honda electric moped

Even the guys at the bike shop hadn't heard of using a coaster brake in the front wheel before i asked them about it. I wanted something that would stop me in the rain. It was easy to setup and worked great.

I came across a broken trolling motor at a yard sale and paid like $10 for it.. At the time i didn't know much about speed controls and all the rest and ended up dumping it. That motor was kinda small. Trolling motors are rated in pounds of thrust which i don't know how to translate into horsepower.

The size of a (permanant magnet) industrial motor says something about it's power. An average one horse 90 volt industrial motor will weigh about 35 pounds. It will be close to 5 inch diameter and 10 inches long... big and heavy. It's also more powerful than a one horse gasoline engine as far as powering a vehicle goes.

(As i understand it, horsepower ratings are technically an amperage rating but gas engines ratings must be converted to torque at some RPM to determine HP. (And they are often overrated deliberately as are AC power tool motors.) A one horse PM electic motor is likely to be a true one horsepower. And an electric motor is very strong even at very low RPMs.)

Voltage rating is a big thing. You can double the power (and RPM) of a 12 volt PM motor if you just use 24 volts. But that 12 volt motor is not designed to disapate the heat nor are it's bearings, etc built to withstand the stress. So, start with a motor rated like 48 or 72 volts. (Some trolling motors are 36 volt) Batteries in series can put out that voltage. You have more power with higher voltage motors and they are also wound for lower, more normal RPMS. Gearing down from very high RPM is a chore.

I'm sure no motor expert but i did a lot of searching and reading on the net .. lots of web sites and forums and a few clubs that build electric bikes and airplanes and all the rest.. lots of good info out there.

If i get the urge to do it again, i will use something like a small golf cart motor next time.. (or a large wheelchair motor?) but they are not cheap. Nor do the golf cart repair shops throw away anything worth salvaging.. i been there already.

Re: Honda electric moped

I love the idea and the looks don't bother me either.

Unlike some of the posts here, I like anything with 2 wheels, if it has a motor on it. When I used to ride a Goldwing, we would meet up with Harley riders at rallies, and most of them were cool, but every now and then there would be a guy who called Hondas "Jap Crap" or something similar and I just blew them off. I love my moped but would be just as happy on a good scooter, and if I had the money I'd have them all.

Re: Honda electric moped

Steamboat Aka J. R. Stevens /

fyi 746 WATTS = 1hp

Re: Honda electric moped

Yeah.. 746

As far as my comparing amps to horsepower, i was thinking shop motors and power tools. The nameplate will always have an amperage rating (like at 110 and/or 220 volts) but i have yet to see one with a wattage rating. (Wattage will be noted on things that have a resistive load, like a toaster.)

Anyway, when speaking of motors, the calculation is not as simple as volts X amps = watts (746W = 1 HP) since there's a Service Factor and a Motor Efficiency Rating and Starting Current, Phase.. Maybe RPM and probably a few other things that should get plugged into the formula.

Re: Honda electric moped

Steamboat Aka J. R. Stevens /

Re: Honda electric moped

Steamboat Aka J. R. Stevens /

Re: Honda electric moped

You seem to know a lot about it so answer me this.. it's been bothering me.

Lets say you have a one horse motor. (leave out efficiency factor)

It draws 10 amps at 74.6 volts. 10 amps x 74.6 volts = 746 Watts. 746 watts = one HP.

Now grab the motors shaft and stall the motor. Voltage remains the same while the amperes drawn skyrockets. (Your 20 amp fuse is gonna blow)

The equation is now 50 amps X 74.6 volts = 3,730 watts .. 3,730 divided by 746 = 5 horsepower?

Did the horsepower rating of this motor miraculously become a 5 horsepower motor by grabbing the moter's shaft?

Is wattage a true indication of motor horsepower in all circumstances?

Re: Honda electric moped

Steamboat Aka J. R. Stevens /

I let the engineers design them.

Re: Honda electric moped

Steamboat Aka J. R. Stevens /

HP is a unit to measure power. Power is the ratio of work made in certain amount of time.

1 HP electric = 33,013.3 LBFT/minute =746 watts

1 HP mechanic= 33,000 LBFT/minute= 745.69 watts

1 HP boiler =434,107 LBFT/min = 9809.50 watts

1 HP metric= 32,549 LBFT/min = 735.499 watts

1 HP water = 33,015.6 LBFT/min = 746.043 watts

1 HP U.K. = 33,000.44 LBFT/min = 745.70 watts

Re: Honda electric moped

Steamboat Aka J. R. Stevens /

http://largoscooters.com/stealthkits.html I really like this concept of using a good bicycle to create a moped.

Re: Honda electric moped

Steamboat Aka J. R. Stevens /

Joew You have left RPM out of your equation. HP/watts in a motor are measured at a certain RPM indicating work. Your example would mean a direct short has the most watts and most HP although no work was being done. Again, I leave the design to the engineers.

Re: Honda electric moped

Actually, motors can be overdriven for short periods of time. ("overdrive' is the common term) If a motor can accept 5 times it's normal wattage without burning up, it's horsepower has in fact increased by a factor of 5. The watts-per-horsepower calculation holds true and the motor _does_ magically become a 5 horse motor..

This illustrates what i have been trying to say about horsepower ratings for motors. The ratings are not absolute except under precisely known conditions. Variables make stated horsepower ratings unrelible.

Re: Honda electric moped

you're confusing horsepower with work.

Horsepower is just a unit of measurement... A one horse motor has the ability to do a certain amount of work.

A stalled motor drawing 3,730 watts has the ability to do the work of 5 horses.

A 50 watt light bulb is 50 watt bulb even when it is switched off.

Re: Honda electric moped

Steamboat Aka J. R. Stevens /

Re: Honda electric moped

jeeze.. if you think i'm gonna play with you and walk you through physics 101 until you understand this, you're mistaken.

Re: Honda electric moped

Steamboat Aka J. R. Stevens /

Joew, I assume your last post was directed at me. My physics info is backed up by references, your physics ivfo is backed up byBS and insults. You can't even spell zenor and zenors are used in parallel for voltage regulation not series as indicated in one of your previous posts.

Re: Honda electric moped

Sure, I misspelled it but at least i learned. I pronounced it wrong for my entire life and so, spelled it accordingly on the rare occasions when i had to.

But you are still having a hard time with it for some reason. It's z-e-n-e-r.

I'm not interested in personal duels unless it's against a worthy opponent and i have an opportunity to learn something. Lets argue about your specialty.. Pick something you are most knowledgable about. It might be fun and educational.

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