Stereo Trouble

Wayne Broderick /

I've run into a problem. Could use some trouble shooting help.

The EM field generated by the moped is interfering with the new AMP I bought.

The old one cooked due to a loose wire. I'm trying to build an EM shield to keep the engine noise from interfering with the amp's electronics.

I'm going to glue tin-foil or a thin copper sheet to a piece of rubber or plastic and wrap the amp in that. Hopefully, it will block the EM noise that is occuring.

Has anyone noticed that smaller electronics (walkman, discman etc) are disrupted by the moped's EMI field? I have an MP3 player and it won't work at all when it is too close to the moped. Even though no wires are connecting it to the ped, the EMI field is disruptive to the circuitry.

So, I'm going to try to insulate the Mp3 player and see if it can run near the moped. if I can successfully block the EM from the ped on the MP3 player then I'll try to build a shield for the new amp.

If anyone has any advice on jury-rigging EMI shielding, let me know. I'd appreciate it.

-Wayne

Re: Stereo Trouble

Wayne Broderick /

Figured it out. I was able to make a cheap RFI shield (two layers of tin foil....) and the Mp3 player worked right next to the mopeds engine.. I should be able to get the AMP to work by doing the same thing.

When I took the tin-foil off the Mp3 player with the moped running, it stopped instantly... when I put the tinfoil between it and the moped, it worked fine.

I am a little concerned about the extra heat the tin foil might cause... I may line the whole pannier with foil instead of just insulating the AMP.

I'm glad-- I've been trying to figure this out for about 2 weeks. I decided to research the EMI shielding industry-- the professionals use foil attached to a polymer in layers-- this is the most common way, because it addresses the "Victim" of the EMI without addressing the cause. it would be impossible to wrap my whole moped engine in foil to stop EMI/EMR output, so I need to block the "victim" (amp) from the EMI.

Why is this post important to people who don't have a stereo? Someday you might try to listen to a walkman on your ped, and unless you remember the tin-foil EMI shield, you may not be able to have music-- the gears will turn but the output will be disrupted.

I'll post more when I have the new 80watt amp insulated and working.

-Wayne

Re: Stereo Trouble

Jamie Leonard /

You could try (if you have any kicking about) some of the bags computer parts come in (with the wires inside or the thin layer of foil) since that'll help cut out some EMF (and since they're already in bag form you can basically just snug it around it and see if it helps... plus they are not exactly expensive)

Might not help but if you have them kicking about probably worth a try.

Re: Stereo Trouble

Wayne Broderick /

That's a darn good idea-- ! I don't have any of those bags 'cept a little one some memory came in... Thanks for the input-!

I think I fixed it, but I like the idea of a bag better than tin foil.

I was also thinking about that metal duct tape-- that might be thicker than the tin foil, so would need less layers--

Thanks!

Re: Stereo Trouble

XBrandon EdgeX /

I think you can get spark plug boots that filter that stuff out. I think most cars have them.

Re: Stereo Trouble

Wayne Broderick /

Brandon, tell me more--! I was unaware, and would like to pursue that option!

Re: Stereo Trouble

I have a 1000 watt sound stream amp on mine and it doesent get messed up

what kind of ped do u have

Re: Stereo Trouble

Wayne,

I had a similar problem with my weedeater years ago. I couldn't get my walkman to work without serious distortion when it was running. I found that aluminium works best for EMI shielding. I built a little box that I clipped to my belt, that the walkman could sit in. It worked like a dream. If you can find the precise source of the EMI, you could either build a shield around it or at least between it and the amp. You have make sure though, that the shield is grounded to work properly. You can even paint it to match whatever you want. DON"T use the mylar bags from computer parts. They don't protect well from EMI. Just static. And they are flammable too!!!! As for your spark plug boot, you would be better served with a suppression cable as well. I think the real thing to figure out is, is your problem caused by EMI or RFI. Both can play havoc with electronics but each has different solutions.

Richard

Re: Stereo Trouble

Reeperette /

Not just the plug boot, some of the plugs as well have resistors to prevent such a thing....I know for a fact that most Champion plugs can be gotten with that option.

Lemme know what kinda ped that is, and what plug yer using now, and I can find out the part # for a resistor plug in the correct heat range.

That should help a lot...they're designed that way to eliminate this exact problem in cars.

-Ree

Re: Stereo Trouble

Wayne Broderick /

here's more info-- Thanks for the help!

Just to make sure I mentioned this; The stereo amp and air horn are powered by a seperate battery in the pannier bag, not hooked to the moped electrical system at all-- I did try grounding the amp to the moped but the interference got worse.

I haven't tried to build an aluminum box yet, tried foil, some success (at least a signal...) but not quality sound at all.

The moped needs to be about 4 feet away and the stereo will play fine, come in close and it crackles out.

What pisses me off is that the other amp (road gear brand name) was a 35$ Wal-Mart special, and it had no trouble, the new amp, same company same price range, new model is totally affected. I wish I'd saved the old one to look inside and see what was different.....Maybe I could have swapped parts.

I'm going out soon to get a new amp, but I don't know what to look for as far as shielding or features to prevent this. I tried an RCA ground-loop isolater, knew it wasn't going to help, and it didn't. I had to try, though.

Ree: I've got a Tomos Targa, 2000 model, with Bi-Turbo, no piston kit.

Jon: For real? 1000 watt amp on a moped? wow I am humbled-- would love to get some info on your setup, please! for example, where do you get the extra power?? I gotta know more!!

Richard: Will I need to build a box, or can I screen the EM/RF with a partial shield facing the engine?

How thick would the screen need to be? I was also told to use copper-- Tin foil was a big pain in the ass. I've got a bunch of photos of my moped here on the army site, so I'll clip one to one of the next posts.

Thanks again for all your help--!!!

Stereo (more info--)

Wayne Broderick /

Forgot to ask:

How can I tell which kind of EM or RF I'm getting?

Ree: let me know about what you find on the plug-- my detailed bike info is in the message further below--That plug w/ anti noise resistor would be the best option, hands down.

I've got a 2000 targa--

here's more info-- Thanks for the help!

Just to make sure I mentioned this; The stereo amp and air horn are powered by a seperate battery in the pannier bag, not hooked to the moped electrical system at all-- I did try grounding the amp to the moped but the interference got worse.

I haven't tried to build an aluminum box yet, tried foil, some success (at least a signal...) but not quality sound at all.

The moped needs to be about 4 feet away and the stereo will play fine, come in close and it crackles out.

What pisses me off is that the other amp (road gear brand name) was a 35$ Wal-Mart special, and it had no trouble, the new amp, same company same price range, new model is totally affected. I wish I'd saved the old one to look inside and see what was different.....Maybe I could have swapped parts.

I'm going out soon to get a new amp, but I don't know what to look for as far as shielding or features to prevent this. I tried an RCA ground-loop isolater, knew it wasn't going to help, and it didn't. I had to try, though.

Ree: I've got a Tomos Targa, 2000 model, with Bi-Turbo, no piston kit.

Jon: For real? 1000 watt amp on a moped? wow I am humbled-- would love to get some info on your setup, please! for example, where do you get the extra power?? I gotta know more!!

Richard: Will I need to build a box, or can I screen the EM/RF with a partial shield facing the engine?

How thick would the screen need to be? I was also told to use copper-- Tin foil was a big pain in the ass. I've got a bunch of photos of my moped here on the army site, so I'll clip one to one of the next posts.

Thanks again for all your help--!!!

Re: Stereo Trouble

I got some aluminium sheet used for autobody repair (it'll be in the same section of a good hardware store, something like Pep Boys. You would want to get the sheet at least in between the EM field and your amp, so weather you would need to build a box or not would depend on just where you are placing the amp, and where the EMI is coming from. Have you checked into the placement of your cables as well. It wouldn't do any good to shield your amp if the signal cables run through the EM field as well. If they do, you'll need to shield them as well. I think first thing I would do is try to figure out the specific source of the interference and see if it could be corrected with a new resitor plug or plug wire or something along those lines. It would be WAY easier on your soul to do a plug change than to go through all this trouble to build custom shielding.

Good luck.

Richard

Stereo Trouble (Plug)

Wayne Broderick /

Okay--! I think I might have it.

My Tomos uses NGKbp4hs plugs. The coresponding NGK is a BPR4hs

Like you all suggested, these plugs are designed to produce less interference/noise than the standard plugs...

2.19 a pop. I'd like to find a Bosch Platinum with the same feature, as I've heard the worst about NGK (jap) in a Euro bike.

Thanks again. Stuck at work now, but I'll try it out after I get out. If this works, it will be grand, because I can use an MP3 player instead of the cassette deck, and will lose weight and get better sound.

I'll keep ya updated-- thansk again!!

(where did the dude with the 1000w amp go? I'd like to get more info!! Sweet amp, for sure...wondering how you power it...!)

-Wayne-

Stereo Trouble (Plug)

Wayne Broderick /

Okay--! I think I might have it.

My Tomos uses NGKbp4hs plugs. The coresponding NGK is a BPR4hs

Like you all suggested, these plugs are designed to produce less interference/noise than the standard plugs...

2.19 a pop. I'd like to find a Bosch Platinum with the same feature, as I've heard the worst about NGK (jap) in a Euro bike.

Thanks again. Stuck at work now, but I'll try it out after I get out. If this works, it will be grand, because I can use an MP3 player instead of the cassette deck, and will lose weight and get better sound.

I'll keep ya updated-- thansk again!!

(where did the dude with the 1000w amp go? I'd like to get more info!! Sweet amp, for sure...wondering how you power it...!)

-Wayne-

Stereo Trouble (Plug) Success!

Wayne Broderick /

It's fixed.

Correction: the plug number for the NGK with anti-noise resistor for the Tomos Targa is actually: NGKBPR5HS

I had a 4 in there-- didn't want to circulate bad info.

Thanks to whoever thought of the resistor spark plug. Ree or brandon, I think.

I still have to hook everything back up, so if anyone wants specific photos of any of the parts I can oblige. Let me know. I've got the Amp, car stereo, air compressor, pannier bag and wiring harness (had to build that harness, It's scary looking--!)

The "gel" cell battery is important-- I can photo that too if there's interest.

Someone wanted a photo of how the pannier is attached to the moped-- I'll have to get that after I hook it up and get ready to put it back on the bike.

Because there is no more radio interference, I should be able to use my mp3 player now. that's like 200 songs per cd. WOW!!

Thanks again for the help- I wished I'd asked sooner. forum regulars know how much this means to me, to have the system fixed and working.

I asked my mom if I could have an old teac "box" speaker I saw in her cellar--it is the same size as the ones I had on the moped in the earlier photos I posted. But, the magnet on the new teac speaker is really heavy. That means I can get a lot more sound for less power.

I need to get new, heavy duty shocks for the moped. Rear for sure, should get stiffer springs too. Let me know some good links on that, please.

Thanks again.

Zoomingly Yours,

Wayne

Re: Stereo Trouble the answer

use a capasator between the sparkplug and the coil. edmund SCI has them for like 10 for $1. this should damper the electromagnetic field. its used in cars all the time and it does a fine job. i dont know of any shield what will work (mostly becaue ive never heard of or tryed it) but i dont know, it could work. email me for a wireing diagram.

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