Spree....help again...won't start

dave in naples /

Jun 09, 2001 09:23AM

This machine is starting to drive me nuts. At times it runs perfectly, starts fine when its cold, actually springs to life. goes 35 mph (albeit with a slight tailwind). I've changed everything, plug, new bearings, new rings, new centrifigal clutch, (it definitely does not slip), thoroughly cleaned the carb, put new gas in etc. etc. etc.

Most recently changed the coil, because it was cutting out intermittently, now it doesn't cut out. Throttle linkage is good...........should run perfectly right? Wrong, here's what happens.....After running a good 10-15 minutes, when its thoroughly hot, if I shut the thing off, it just will not restart. it turns over, and over and over, until the battery nearly dies (its a newish battery too) but will not fire.

How is this possible, it was just running perfectly a few minutes before. Now heres the weird part. If I leave the scooter for say 1-2 hours or overnight, and let it thoroughly cool down..........It fires right up as though there was no problem !!!!! Why would it do that ??????

One other thing I've noticed and I don't know if its related to the starting problem but maybe it might give you a clue as to whats going on here. After 10-15 minutes of riding, when the engine is thoroughly hot, if I stop at a light or stop sign When I start off again.....add some throttle, the engine won't accelerate its usual fast rate, but sort of bogs down, I have to add throttle very slowly to get the scooter moving again, and after accelerating very very slowly, it'll suddenly pick up quickly and then go back to its normal fast acceleration rate and speed. Whats up here? Anybody know? Its definitely not clutch related.

Could it be a choke circuit that comes on, when it shouldn't, or is it more likely carb related ? Exhaust port or muffler is not plugged. Thats been changed too.

Any suggestions or insight would be greatly appreciated

Re: Spree....help again...won't start

Jim C. /

Jun 09, 2001 11:03AM

Sounds like the Auto Bystarter is the culprit. It's a thermally controlled enrichener jet that works this way:

When the engine is off and cold, the jets' needle is off the jet, making the mixture richer. Upon starting the engine the ignition current signal activates its' coil that starts closing the jet as the engine warms up. If everything works right, the jet is closed anytime the engine has run for the perscribed period of time.

The Auto Bysarter is that piece on the carburetor that has the wire going to it. The Spree shop manual has a procedure for testing it. You should consult one before you get to the point of changing the mirrors to get it to run right!

Jim

Re: Spree....help again...won't start

don-ohio /

Jun 09, 2001 02:50PM

Hi! If it's not what Jim said,you have classic symptoms of vapor lock.Make sure the gas you use has NO ethanol or methanol and that your fuel line and carb bowl aren't too near the hot engine.Please let us know what's the problem,o.k.? I notice you're where the heat is so that's my best guess.BYE!

OK thanks guys I'll try that

dave in naples /

Jun 09, 2001 05:21PM

I think you are on the right track. Just as an aside, I pulled the plug after it ran fine, then shut the engine off, tried to restart....then it wouldn't start...thats when I pulled the plug. It was covered with a black sort of wet oily film. Thats probably whats causing it to not restart after its been running fine.

So, whats causing that to happen. Would the choke be enrichening the mixture even thought the engine's hot???

Or is there another cause I'm not aware of.

Thanks.

Re: OK thanks guys I'll try that

Jim C. /

Jun 10, 2001 01:32AM

You answered your own question, Dave. Obviously the the auto-bystarter is not closing after the engine warms up, giving the effect of a closed choke. Runs fine cold to warm, once the engine is up too operating temp, it's too rich

Get a Spree workshop manual for the test procedure to be sure before laying down cash for an new auto-bystarter. You'll need a digital voltmeter to test it.

Jim

Re: OK thanks guys I'll try that

rob in michigain /

Jun 10, 2001 02:03AM

hey guys,

i think i may have the same problem as the guy from naples. my spree is an 85 and has no kickstart and its real shaky as far as starting. after i charge my battery and it has sat for a good hour it starts and i can stop it then start it again about four times. i know b/c it sat around a couple months things are a bit dirty but the only thing i know is clogged is the float bowl. sometimes i need to manually prime it by removing the bottom tube of the float and connecting another tube, then suck on it, start it, stop it, then reconect it and start it again. also i notice when i open the throttle all the way it starts to wind down untill i close it a little, then it goes back to normal speed. my speedometer is busted so i know my average top speed is abou 28 mph bc i had a friend ride behind me and tell me. so if anyone can help me with this mess it'd be a life saver, bc it is my only transprtation. ANyone know how to fix a speedometer?

Re: OK thanks guys I'll try that

Jon /

Jun 10, 2001 08:37AM

make sure that the cable is not broken and that it is connected under the cover and to the front tire

Re: OK thanks guys I'll try that

don-ohio /

Jun 14, 2001 11:11PM

Hi,Rob! I was thinking that your fuel system sounds like it needs a once over.Start at the bottom of the tank and check your gas tank sock(filter)which may be in the petcock valve.Reverse flush the sock if it's dirty and they usually are.I keep a can of GUMOUT or BRAKEKLEEN handy to reverse flush with.Put on goggles though cause it's like liquid fire if you splash yourself in the eyes.(I never work on anything unless I have a water hose handy to rinse myself off in case of emergencies.) Now,there are sometimes up to 3 filters before the gas actually gets to the needle valve and if you pull the float bowl off and are restricted you must check these.Also,I didn't understand exactly what you were describing about losing prime,BUT NEVER SUCK ON A GAS HOSE if there's a danger of getting it in your mouth.Gas has some bad additives,benzene being the worst as it's a known CANCER CAUSER.It may also contain xylene or toluene and this can wipe out your liver or kidneys,O.K.? A float bowl may have a vent hole or it may naturally vent thru the throttle insert.If the vent stops up you could get a lock-up of fuel flow because of gas vapor,but that's unlikely.And finally in my earlier post I mentioned vapor-locking due to excessive engine heat.Gas with over 5% ethanol is prone to this problem because of the vapor pressure change.BYE!

MOPED ARMY

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